Dies ist ein Notizpad und keine offizielle Äußerung der Piratenpartei!
This is a note pad and NOT an official statement of the Pirate Party!

This is a pad to note some important or interesting things regarding our International E-Democracy Talks!

== CURRENT TALK ==

Saizai presents the idea behind "MakeYourLaws.org"
http://meinungsfindungstool.piratenpad.de/2012-10-15-Notizen


== UPCOMING TALKS ==



== NOTES ==

• focused on the US for now
• we cannot change the laws first
• rich people can influence the politicians in the us, because there is no public budget
• attempt is to fight money with money
• time to read the proposals is rare
• Scale discussion with liquid democracy and separation of issues
• https://plus.google.com/100183759660923071401/posts/Su1FcGpjzWz
• https://plus.google.com/100183759660923071401/posts/aEohU3UirLy
• 
  
  
  
  
  

== QUESTIONS ==

• place your questions here
• (1) Assuming your solution is implemented, in what way does it enable me to make my own laws? Can you give an example?
  • initiate a petition, which might subsequently become law
  • pressure an elected official, e.g. by offering them money
• (2) If I choose to participate, how could the law that is passed be different than it would otherwise be?
  • ? unclear, but see (1) i guess
  • propose some novel detail, that nobody else has proposed
  • discussion and the knock-on effects of that
    • but unclear what supports MYOL provides for discussion itself, or how exactly my own contribution to the discussion might affect the actual content of laws
      • upvote the idea
        • which has no effect (?)
      • sign a finished petition
        • which has no effect (?)
      • give money
        • effectiveness depends on how wealthy you are (!)
      • research the context of the law
        • which has no effect (?)
• Is there running code to test out?
  • no, not yet
  • https://github.com/MakeYourLaws/MakeYourLaws
• Can you briefly sum up how this approach improves the quality of a discussion ?
  • divorces proposal off person behind the proposal
  • componentizing/segmenting an issue
  • crowd-supported recommendation system for proxies
• Who is the target group of MakeYourLaws?
  • everybody
• How much the system needs to be moderated or administrated?
  • trolls are a problem against freedom of speech
  • moderation by community like stackoverflow.com?
  • crowd-supported rating system regarding moderators
• If a proxy changes his votes or positions, does he still keep his voters?
  • they get informed and can decide for themselves
• Who administrates the system and has root access to the machines serving it?
  • MYL project (Saizai atm), secure offline storage
• Can you name the main parts the system is divided into?
  • not yet, design is unfinished
• Do you think about a decentralized or centralized system?
  • decentralized attempts died already
  • some parts can, some can not 
    • voters registration needs to be central
    • common APIs can be decentralized
• Concerning the delegation-principle: what is the difference to the tools Liquid Feedback or Adhocracy
  • no difference as I understand Sai
• Do you think about extension points (to hook in other systems or different implementations or solutions) to the MYL system?
  • Sai is fan of common APIs ;o)
  • 
    
• I still have problems assigning your approach within our scope; we're structuring the whole decision-making process in 3 phases/systems: An information system, next a discussion system - incorporating reasoning, but also (!) negotiating positions, which lead to a reduction of the number of proposals to one issue - and last but not least thirdly a decision system producing resolutions/laws... where in this scope would you assign your approach ?
• You mentioned the "Tea Party" which seams to be a quite rassist and reactionary party in the US. Is there a danger that groups like that gain power through posting anti-alien lies ?
  • Fact checking
• It might be useful to have a set of scenarios much like Cucumber tests to allow each system to say what scenearios they can cover. I'm hearing "I have a proposal for a complete law - how do I start that?" I've done that in real life with 4 committed people and got something into law at the county level. So is there an agreed set of scenarios cooked up?
  
  
  
  

== PREVIOUS TALKS ==

You can download the 2nd E-Democracy Talk about "Architecture of Democracy 2.0" by Ronald Grindle here:
http://bayfiles.com/file/njMN/8h6pRB/Mumble-2012-10-08-21-08-51-mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de-Mixdown.mp3 // https://dl.dropbox.com/u/107231073/AG%20Meinungsfindungstool/Session%20recordings/Mumble-2012-10-08-21-08-51-mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de-Mixdown.ogg (Presentation starts at around 00:30:00)
http://meinungsfindungstool.piratenpad.de/2012-10-08-Notizen


You can download the 1st E-Democracy Talk about "Vilfredo Goes to Athens" by Pietro Speroni di Fenizio here:
http://bayfiles.com/file/mUgZ/1IjnH9/Mumble-2012-10-03-21-20-04-mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de-Mixdown.mp3 (Presentation starts at around 00:56:00)
http://meinungsfindungstool.piratenpad.de/2012-10-03-Notizen


== THINGS TO REMEMBER ==


== DECISION MAKING STANDARD ==

http://meinungsfindungstool.piratenpad.de/Decision-Making-Standard